Forum:Ron's Abilities sections
Some thoughts I had on some of Ron's Abilities sections. There are a lot, and some seem connected enough where they could be combined, or be subsections of each other. For example: *Arts and Creativity are both fairly small sections, and I don't see why they couldn't be combined. All of the incidents listed seem to be examples of Ron's creativity to me, anyway. *Everything related to Ron's use of Mystical Monkey Power is combat based. So while I don't think the importance of MMP should be understated, I do think it appearing outside of Combat Skills is odd. It's a pretty reasonable assumption that most of his fighting prowess is a direct result of MMP. Everything under Combat Skills happens after Monkey Fist Strikes, at least, and if Ron ever showed any fighting skill before that, I never saw it. I'm sure the week at Yamanouchi helped, but it was just a week. - Dap00 19:05, May 6, 2013 (UTC) Agreed, all points. Love Robin (talk) 21:33, May 6, 2013 (UTC) :I agree that the sections should be combined. That is what I am trying to do with the personality section. I also agree that the Arts and Creativity sections should be combined. I also agree that the MMP should be folded into the combat abilities. :I do not agree, and feel very strongly about the fact that any statement as fact that most of Ron's combat skills are a result of the MMP is not canon. It is a very common fanon position that Ron couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag if it were not for the MMP, but that is not supported by canon. In fact, depending upon the order of the episodes that one subscribes to Ron demonstrated some decent combat abilities before "Monkey Fist Strikes". It is also highly suspect to surmise that Ron's abilities after "Monkey Fist Strikes" are extremely out of the ordinary. :I will even go so far as to state, that while it is not canon (because of "Exchange"), Ron's combat abilities between "Monkey Fist Strikes" and "Exchange" were never intended to be MMP related. The end of "Monkey Fist Strikes" gives every indication that the destruction of the statues would remove all MMP abilities imbued into the user. If that were not the case then Monkey Fist would likely have welcomed the destruction of the statues. If only to ensure that he was the only one with MMP. Instead, he did everything he could to save the statues and even makes statements that imply that if the statues are destroyed that he would lose the MMP. :Quite frankly, it is a grave disservice to Ron's character to imply that the only reason he is any good at any sort of combat is because of the MMP. Especially since there is zero canonical evidence or even really supposition to that regard. :Mknopp (talk) 22:21, May 6, 2013 (UTC) :::Fanon or no, MMP or no, problem lays in how the writers proceeded to shape Canon. Ron was rarely capable and was Buttmonkey for nearly everything. He couldn't even use the grapple-dryer or spin a bo without losing his clothes. And until Ill-suited, Ron was crap at sports. :::I agree S1 Ron had some skills, but not so much in combat as other off-the-wall things, such as his waiter-tray frisbee toss in *Number One*. However that was soon devolved and forgotten. :::If we're going to be restrained to Canon in the articles, we have to accept what Canon provides. :::Love Robin (talk) 22:47, May 6, 2013 (UTC) :Exactly! And canon does not provide "that most of his fighting prowess is a direct result of MMP". This is pure fanon with no evidence in the canon to back it up. In fact, canon does provide several examples where Ron exhibits some decent combat abilities, especially within the context of the series, with absolutely no indication or even hint that they are in any way influenced by the MMP. And the supposition that we didn't see it before he received MMP is not proof. :Mknopp (talk) 12:31, May 7, 2013 (UTC) *I invite you both to look over and make edits to the concluding paragraph I added to Ron's MMP section, which I think nicely sums up the vagueness surrounding both MMP and the undetermined level/amount of Ron's combat skills before he got the power. *Ron has some moments where he clearly displays superhuman strength or supernatural powers. I don't think there's any question that those moments are due to MMP. But there are also times where Ron does something fairly impressive combat-wise, and there's no telltale glow around him while he does so. In those cases it's much harder to determine where the skill is largely coming from, especially since Ron does not show such skill consistently. For example, when Ron kicked over a tree at Yamanouchi, that could be excused as the tree just being old, Ron hitting just the right stress point, or dumb luck. But it could also be natural skill, the supposed Ron Factor at work (I firmly believe that GJ scientists are the dumbest smart people in the series), ninja training, or a notable increase in strength due to MMP. There's really no way to be sure. ::My point being just because MMP wasn't obvious in the incident, doesn't mean for sure that it played no part. But I'll also agree that just because we didn't see so much of Ron's skill, doesn't mean he never had them. Although, considering some of the tight spots he could have used them in and didn't, I would personally rather believe that he either didn't have the skills or the confidence to use them, rather than he had both and for some reason still didn't use them. It's one thing if he didn't want step on Kim's toes as the hero. It's another entirely that Kim had to regularly double back and save him, or that something he did in a combat situation backfired to Kim's misfortune. I guess I just feel that as annoyed as Ron was by people being unable to remember his name, if he had skill enough to make himself memorable and still didn't, he really only had himself to blame for that. ::For that reason I tend to think that many of Ron's combat skills were much more like his MMP, and indeed many other talents that he only rarely displayed: they came in temporary, unexpected bursts, and then went away. Which isn't to say that he didn't have them, only that he rarely would or could use them. Maybe that's because of a lack of interest, or a short attention span, or something else. I have no idea. Maybe the randomness of it is part of the overall Ronness. But to my knowledge, no one has ever been able to offer a reasonable explanation for it, least of all Ron himself. Sporadic MMP was just one of the things that could have explained it. Because without taking that into account, Ron was almost random to the point of having multiple personalities, one of them confident and combat-capable, and the other not. And Other Guy showed up a lot more than Combat Guy. - Dap00 23:25, May 7, 2013 (UTC) You basically just hit the nail on the head where Ron is concerned when you said, "Ron was almost random to the point of having multiple personalities". That is almost exactly the total truth of the matter. Ron is the spunky, comic relief, and as such he is fairly incompetent until the time comes from him to be competent. Or, and this is important, he isn't needed to be either funny or heroic. Ron is a big bag of contradictions. I will try to comment on the edits for his martial abilities. However, there are a few things that I want to mention regarding the MMP. Re: "Ron has some moments where he clearly displays superhuman strength or supernatural powers. I don't think there's any question that those moments are due to MMP." Actually, there is a very big question there. Several of the characters display superhuman strength and supernatural powers, and none of them are considered to have MMP. The ninjas at Yamanouchi exhibited the ability to levitate and become invisible, yet none of them had MMP. Kim is several times shown to have superhuman strength and she doesn't have the MMP. Then there are the Gos. They all have superpowers and yet don't have MMP. My point being that there are several individuals in the KP series that exhibit superhuman strength or supernatural powers and yet none of them have the MMP. Further, I have reviewed a few scenes and noticed something very interesting. In "Monkey Fist Strikes" when Rufus is knocking off the statues Monkey Fist screams that they would ruin everything. Then, after he catches them he states that Mystical Monkey Power was still his. Very clearly showing that Monkey Fist, an expert in monkey related items, completely believed that if the idols were destroyed that the MMP would be lost. Then when Sensei is explaining about the Lotus Blade he states that only two people had been exposed to MMP since Toshimiru. This is important because he clearly does not state that two people possessed the MMP. All of this evidence actually points to the fact that Ron no longer actually possesses the MMP after the end of "Monkey Fist Strikes" and all of the experts in MMP agree. What is confusing the issue is that Ron is also implicit in other monkey prophecies, which are not actually stated to be related to the MMP. The Mystical Monkey Monk never mentions the MMP. And even in "Graduation" Sensei never says anything about the MMP, but only states that Ron is now the Ultimate Monkey Master. Something that Monkey Fist felt he needed other monkey related items to achieve. Because of these pieces of canonical evidence I am starting to think that it isn't even canonical to state the Ron actually has the MMP after "Monkey Fist Strikes", but that he is linked to monkey related prophecies as a whole. At least that is my take. Mknopp (talk) 03:18, May 8, 2013 (UTC) I have pointed out before that Ron, and Fiske, has been *touched* by MMP. I used the example of a glass of water as being wet after being emptied of water. However, I also feel the Creatives were simply hit or miss about mentioning "MMP", but all the implications are there in most things Ron. I'll point out that after being MMP zapped, Ron's fight with Fiske had not indication of glowing, so that aura thing is an extreme expression. Also, 1) Team Go members are non-examples of having r not having MMP, as their abilities were granted by a "comet" (BTW, Working on a series of how *I* work with the glows over on dA). 2) Ninjas supposedly have a series of 'jitsus', and what the class displayed was along those lines, so no MMP. So remove the oranges and peaches from the basket of apples, So canonically speaking, Ron *is* a box of chawk'lits, a buttmonkey, butt of all jokes. For *me*, the answer is that the Essence of Monkey, once Ron was touched upon it and named in prophesy, being a trickster, plays with hapless Ron. And chances are that Bobo the Chimp *was* either Monkey or his Essence, meaning Ron's been under his/its auspice since. Love Robin (talk) 03:56, May 8, 2013 (UTC) Yes, LR, I remember about your theory of being touched, and considering what Sensei said, it seems to have some canonical backing. MMP is one of those cluster fs that I wish had never even existed in the KP universe. It quickly became the creator's lazy Dues Ex Machina. Need something magical or supernatural to happen? Call it mystical monkey power. Doesn't matter that is in no way, shape, or form relate to the last time they called something mystical monkey power. I just watched the scene in Graduation again, and of course, it blows my entire theory out of the water. I thought that Sensei told Ron that he was the Ultimate Monkey Master, with no mention of MMP, and that was when he started kicking rear. I was wrong. He clearly states for Ron to "summon the mystical monkey power". As for the oranges and peaches, you completely missed my point. I was pointing to a few other fruits in the entire fruit basket. Simply put, I was pointing out that there are numerous individuals in the KP series that all have superhuman abilities and that none of them gained them from MMP. Thus, there is no reason to automatically assume that Ron's superhuman abilities automatically had to be gained from the MMP. Of course, that theory was completely destroyed by one line from Sensei in Graduation. Sometimes I really loathe the creators and their laziness where internal consistency and continuity were concerned. As for the theory that Ron has been under the monkey essence mojo since Bobo is a decent theory. And fits into this ridiculous everything and the kitchen sink is MMP fubar that the creators gave us. Fun for entertainment, hell if you are trying to actually make any canonical sense of it. I still feel though, that it is a huge disservice to Ron to automatically assume or even stress that everything good he ever does is purely because of the MMP. Mknopp (talk) 11:47, May 8, 2013 (UTC) Evil Potential section? I wonder if there should be a section under Ron's abilities titled Evil Potential, devoted to the rare but notable incidents where Ron was decidedly good at being bad. And I don't even mean the Attitudinator incidents, though those could of course be mentioned. Examples would include: *giving the Seniors several good ideas to make their lair more evil *building a working doomsday device for Drakken *being able to talk Drakken's henchmen out of participating in the cupcake scheme. The entire episode was devoted to showing how evil could run as a company, which Hank Perkins went to school for. Ron just walks in and exploits it with no training. *going berserk and rampaging under the influence of Project Titan. I mention this only because I don't think there was ever anything specifically stated about the formula that was supposed to turn the person exposed to it evil. More importantly, Ron made himself vulnerable to those effects only because of his horrible eating habits and desire to resist authority. And this was late in the series, well after the point where Ron trusted Barkin. *writing a false news story that publicly humiliates your best friend, in order to gain attention, seems pretty shady to me. Also any other incidents where he lied for personal gain. Which become more notable when compared to the hard time he gave Kim about lying to him even once for the same reason. *being offered the position of Agent Alpha in WWE. Admittedly, this wasn't really Ron's choice, and Gemini offered only so GJ couldn't have him. But it's still an evil job offer. *"secret borrowing" Kim's battle suit. I admit the reason behind it wasn't evil, but if Ron had simply explained his fear to Kim, she would have either reassured him, or possibly helped him train so that he could earn a spot on the football team through his own natural skills. He also could have approached Wade to get technological help that didn't involve stealing from Kim. Mind you, the goal here wouldn't be to cast Ron in a negative light, only to showcase certain talents and qualities he has that would make evil a very realistic career choice. - Dap00 00:03, May 13, 2013 (UTC) ::Honestly? No. A few of these aren't even skills/abilities, but simple actions. The others should simply be folded into each of the overarching abilities. ::At least that is my take. ::Mknopp (talk) 11:54, May 13, 2013 (UTC)